Edwin
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by Edwin on Jul 4, 2016 13:38:55 GMT
I have previously commented about Climate Change on the AEP's facebook group. I accept that humans are contributing to negative effects on the environment. I also support a penalty for polluting, call it a tax or a levy but a cost is imposed upon industry for the pollution they emit. However, I don't support the hysteria of climate change and the ban plastic movement. As many people in the group are aware when seeing my posts, that I am a fan of George Carlin. I share his views about Earth Day: www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5Miv4NHsDoAs for the policy suggestion, considering that is the point of this post. The policy is to assign a monetary value to trash, ask yourselves why is trash dumped? The reason is, that trash has no resale value because it's not worth anything. So let's break down the materials that are considered to be trash and their potential monetary value. PlasticBelow are some links to videos of innovations that will hopefully ensure people are financially incentivised to recycle. www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPIHJRIpLRk - what is oil worth? perhaps people could take oil to a collection facility to be tested and to determine if people are trying to cheat and then pay people the amount that oil is worth? Continuing on the idea of selling oil: www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2Rxcux7N2I the machine in this video takes waste vegetable oil and then generates electricity. I am sure it wouldn't be too difficult to modify the machine to use oil that was extracted from plastic. This video is of reverse vending machines as method of collecting plastic bottles in one place rather than people taking their bottles to a collection facility: www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cAqoe8kM3Q the video also shows machines for collecting glass bottles. Here is a video of a glass crasher: www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOIliOKlpG4 is there a significant market for selling sand? Here is a video for making roof tiles: www.youtube.com/watch?v=id-hrTtgOfU3d printer filament: www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-EY8I_XonYPaperThis video shows another way that recycled paper could be monetised www.youtube.com/watch?v=i51zo3LA70U it might seem absurd but maybe it's worth subsiding? I don't know. Food Scrapswww.youtube.com/watch?v=M6iJRq5HvjM and this video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=5STGXr_KwN4 here is another video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8SdP2s9hYIThose are just some of the materials that end up in landfills and waterways. There is no need to ban these materials when we have the technology to turn this waste into something we need.
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Post by Iain Dooley on Jul 5, 2016 7:26:20 GMT
Hey Edwin, I think this is a great idea.
Once we free ourselves of the "taxes fund spending" notion we can be much more creative and paying for trash could be just as effective an incentive as taxing pollution is as a disincentive and I think both are worthwhile policies.
I think in general paying consumers for garbage and then taxing companies that produce garbage would probably produce the right mix of incentives/disincentives.
I'm thinking import tarrifs or extra sales taxes on materials that are more polluting -- so for example if a company sells a chocolate bar they could choose to use cornstarch wrapping instead of plastic. I think the general principle is that since there is no way of accounting for pollution in a normal market scenario it's up to the government to contrive these "market incentives".
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Edwin
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by Edwin on Jul 5, 2016 10:12:45 GMT
Thanks for responding. I was wondering whether trash could used as be a form of currency? at first that might sound odd but if you follow my thinking then hopefully it will make sense. One example would be if you have no money to use public transport but you collect a few plastic bottles and aluminium cans, then take them to a reverse vending machine which would be on a train station, the refund would be credited to the smart card that is used to take public transport. Another example might be if you have no money for food and by collecting trash, you are able to "buy" a meal. Maybe the refund can be deposited to an Australian Post visa credit card so that it can be used anywhere.
Would a "trash currency" circumvent the Australian dollar? would there need to be taxes put on the trash currency to avoid all of the issues that are attributed to real currency? Would such a proposal be legal?
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Edwin
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by Edwin on Jul 5, 2016 10:20:05 GMT
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lojac
New Member
Posts: 3
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Post by lojac on Jul 5, 2016 13:21:18 GMT
I live in Brisbane..could become a millionaire in a month with the amount of rubbish on the streets here
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Senexx
Junior Member
Posts: 81
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Post by Senexx on Jul 7, 2016 6:29:41 GMT
Thanks for responding. I was wondering whether trash could used as be a form of currency? at first that might sound odd but if you follow my thinking then hopefully it will make sense. One example would be if you have no money to use public transport but you collect a few plastic bottles and aluminium cans, then take them to a reverse vending machine which would be on a train station, the refund would be credited to the smart card that is used to take public transport. Another example might be if you have no money for food and by collecting trash, you are able to "buy" a meal. Maybe the refund can be deposited to an Australian Post visa credit card so that it can be used anywhere. Would a "trash currency" circumvent the Australian dollar? would there need to be taxes put on the trash currency to avoid all of the issues that are attributed to real currency? Would such a proposal be legal? I love this. This is exactly how currency is supposed to circulate. It evens add to service productivity by keeping an area clean, tidy and respectable.
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Post by Iain Dooley on Jul 13, 2016 12:53:30 GMT
Thanks for responding. I was wondering whether trash could used as be a form of currency? at first that might sound odd but if you follow my thinking then hopefully it will make sense. One example would be if you have no money to use public transport but you collect a few plastic bottles and aluminium cans, then take them to a reverse vending machine which would be on a train station, the refund would be credited to the smart card that is used to take public transport. Another example might be if you have no money for food and by collecting trash, you are able to "buy" a meal. Maybe the refund can be deposited to an Australian Post visa credit card so that it can be used anywhere. Would a "trash currency" circumvent the Australian dollar? would there need to be taxes put on the trash currency to avoid all of the issues that are attributed to real currency? Would such a proposal be legal? Funnily enough I was down at my local coffee shop the other day and they have a sign that says "bring 3 pieces of garbage in from the beach and get a free zooper dooper". Never mind of course that a zooper dooper basically constitutes another piece of garbage ... But it is a similar concept. Giving garbage a redemption value is a great way to tidy things up in the short term but I would rather look at our systems for packaging in the first place. There are superior materials in terms of biodegradability than the plastics we use now, primarily just because they're cheap. I'd like to see government investing in R&D projects to improve packaging and food delivery, and/or subsidising and/or taxing businesses based on their packaging materials.
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Edwin
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by Edwin on Jul 13, 2016 14:35:14 GMT
Thanks for responding. I was wondering whether trash could used as be a form of currency? at first that might sound odd but if you follow my thinking then hopefully it will make sense. One example would be if you have no money to use public transport but you collect a few plastic bottles and aluminium cans, then take them to a reverse vending machine which would be on a train station, the refund would be credited to the smart card that is used to take public transport. Another example might be if you have no money for food and by collecting trash, you are able to "buy" a meal. Maybe the refund can be deposited to an Australian Post visa credit card so that it can be used anywhere. Would a "trash currency" circumvent the Australian dollar? would there need to be taxes put on the trash currency to avoid all of the issues that are attributed to real currency? Would such a proposal be legal? Funnily enough I was down at my local coffee shop the other day and they have a sign that says "bring 3 pieces of garbage in from the beach and get a free zooper dooper". Never mind of course that a zooper dooper basically constitutes another piece of garbage ... But it is a similar concept. Giving garbage a redemption value is a great way to tidy things up in the short term but I would rather look at our systems for packaging in the first place. There are superior materials in terms of biodegradability than the plastics we use now, primarily just because they're cheap. I'd like to see government investing in R&D projects to improve packaging and food delivery, and/or subsidising and/or taxing businesses based on their packaging materials. If the focus is on biodegradable materials then that kills the recycling cycle, once the material breaks down that's the end. There would be no material available to make new products, just new products made from raw materials that biodegrade. I would have assumed that recycling materials to make new products, reduces the cost of the new products because they don't have to be made from raw materials. I just don't see the point in continually making new products out of one use materials.
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Edwin
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by Edwin on Jul 13, 2016 15:02:48 GMT
Using coffee as an example of the price breakdown of a product and the percentages that make up the price of that coffee. Here is an image of the price breakdown of a cup of coffee in china.
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Post by Iain Dooley on Jul 13, 2016 21:23:11 GMT
Yeah you're right in the long term it's probably web just better to move away from so much packaging altogether. The amount of packaging and rubbish we produce now is ridiculous. But as a transition I think that replacing all non recyclable packaging with biodegradable alternatives, and encouraging the use and reuse of recyclable materials as you've encouraged are good strategies.
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Edwin
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by Edwin on Jul 13, 2016 23:04:40 GMT
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Post by Iain Dooley on Jul 14, 2016 10:34:13 GMT
Yeah I've actually seen a machine like that near Wynyard station in Sydney. I think a price on garbage (at all levels, from street trash to industrial waste) could be just as effective a policy tool as a tax on pollution/waste.
But in general (and from a very long term perspective) I would like to see a) a dramatic reduction in waste produced, most probably a result of localised production and a return of cottage industry and b) whatever packaging we do use would be as much as possible made from either highly durable and reusable (rather than recyclable) or completely biodegradable materials. This would be a much more complex problem of course and in the near term pricing waste could well provide the incentive required to reduce the amount of plastic winding up in the ocean.
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Edwin
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by Edwin on Jul 14, 2016 11:32:22 GMT
Yeah I've actually seen a machine like that near Wynyard station in Sydney. I think a price on garbage (at all levels, from street trash to industrial waste) could be just as effective a policy tool as a tax on pollution/waste. But in general (and from a very long term perspective) I would like to see a) a dramatic reduction in waste produced, most probably a result of localised production and a return of cottage industry and b) whatever packaging we do use would be as much as possible made from either highly durable and reusable (rather than recyclable) or completely biodegradable materials. This would be a much more complex problem of course and in the near term pricing waste could well provide the incentive required to reduce the amount of plastic winding up in the ocean. "a dramatic reduction in waste produced" it would no longer be waste when it's repurposed into new products thereby reducing the need for raw materials and lowering manufacturing costs. Plastic code 7 should be biodegradable, here is a link to the plastic codes www.zerowaste.sa.gov.au/at-home/recycle-right/what-do-the-numbers-and-symbols-on-plastics-mean plastic bottles are reusable already. Buy a bottle of soft drink then once it is empty, use it as a water bottle and put it in the fridge.
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Post by Iain Dooley on Jul 14, 2016 12:31:31 GMT
I'm thinking even more durable than that ... And less waste than that. Like I think we have way too much packaging across the board and way too much waste. In terms of raw materials we have enough waste now to provide all the materials we could ever use for centuries if we recycled it and at the same time reduced the total amount of material used at any given time by creating more durable products produced more locally and with less packaging.
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Post by Valerie Gregory on Jul 18, 2016 6:24:58 GMT
Edwin, You asked me to comment on your views on climate change. I agree with your main views on climate change but not sure what you mean by climate hysteria so hard to comment on that. Re plastics - It would be hard to ban plastics but it think it would be worthwhile looking at ways of cutting down the use of plastics and preventing them entering natural ecosystems, as well as researching recycling or biodegrade options. Prefer Seinfeld to Carlin.
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