Edwin
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by Edwin on Jul 18, 2016 12:31:40 GMT
Edwin, You asked me to comment on your views on climate change. I agree with your main views on climate change but not sure what you mean by climate hysteria so hard to comment on that. Re plastics - It would be hard to ban plastics but it think it would be worthwhile looking at ways of cutting down the use of plastics and preventing them entering natural ecosystems, as well as researching recycling or biodegrade options. Prefer Seinfeld to Carlin. Valerie, "climate hysteria" what I mean by that is, the sky is falling due to human activity. Humans created the problem and humans will solve the problem, it's not the end of the world people. Also " Re plastics - It would be hard to ban plastics but it think it would be worthwhile looking at ways of cutting down the use of plastics and preventing them entering natural ecosystems" I don't recall that I said that plastic should be banned but what I did say was that I didn't support people who are advocating for a ban on plastic. To respond to your specific comment about preventing plastic entering natural ecosystems. I previously mentioned that plastic was discarded because it had no monetary value. People generally don't throw money away, which I think once people are financially incentivised the amount of plastic that enters the ecosystem will be reduce and the plastic that still ends up being dumped could then be a job guarantee where people are paid to pick it up. But I don't see why plastic should be demonised because it's a cheap material to produce and keeps the manufacturing costs of goods low. The most common way to control human behaviour is with money, most people only work because they get paid and only a small percentage of the population volunteers. So I think people should be rewarded for not throwing their trash into the ocean, which would then be turned into new products and would lower the cost of those products, like the example I used previously with a cup of coffee where 13% of the price is to cover raw materials. Lastly I am unfamiliar with Seinfeld's views on climate change even though I am a fan of his show, I can't remember every episode but I do remember the collecting bottles and cans episode. Only SA and NT have a container deposit legislation. Thank you for replying to my thread.
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Post by Iain Dooley on Jul 24, 2016 8:07:18 GMT
Hey Edwin check it out, a price on garbage at my local cafe!
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Edwin
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by Edwin on Jul 25, 2016 14:39:48 GMT
Iain Dooley, thanks for uploading the photo. That is what I am talking about, so there is no need to ban rubbish. Rubbish just needs to be worth something, have you asked the cafe how popular this is?
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Post by andymyers on Jul 26, 2016 6:31:30 GMT
Of course the cafe then still has to dispose of the rubbish. So it may still go to landfill. Don't get me wrong, I think this is *great* but I still think there's benefits in creating less waste
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Post by Iain Dooley on Jul 26, 2016 9:30:19 GMT
The get a fair few takers Edwin we don't let the kids eat zooper doopas but we collected a whole bag of garbage to swap for a baby cino instead Whatever happens I think we need to create less waste long term but a price on garbage could be a good short term measure. When I saw this in context of your post it made me think that it would potentially be a great programme to run through schools, allowing kids to get canteen credit for cleaning up around their area or awarding prizes to schools for kids collecting around their catchment area. I don't think it would be good to put "adult prices" on garbage because it would just somehow become a hotbed of scams. I think a federal bottle deposit scheme coupled with an end to plastic drink containers would be a good idea. Gradually we would want to look at an R&D effort to reduce the amount of garbage produced overall.
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Edwin
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by Edwin on Jul 26, 2016 12:41:35 GMT
Iain Dooley, you don't agree with my view that reducing waste kills the recycling chain? If the discarded products are repurposed into new products then what is the definition of waste? I also don't understand this: "I don't think it would be good to put "adult prices" on garbage because it would just somehow become a hotbed of scams. I think a federal bottle deposit scheme coupled with an end to plastic drink containers would be a good idea." I don't have a lot of experience with scrap metal but is there consumer protection for buying and selling from a scrap yard? I would have assumed garage would be brought and sold by organisations that have a government license, which allowed them to do so, wouldn't this reduce scams? So in the case of the cafe and the zoopa doopa reward. As I originally posted, vending machines would be used to credit people for depositing rubbish. Once the credit is received people could then go and use that create to by anything they want for the value of the deposit. It is also why I asked if a trash currency would circumvent the real currency. Well not circumvent entirely, I doubt that people are willing to work for 3 plastic bottles and a beer can per hour but I think you get my general point. Also to avoid other people going through bins, wouldn't this idea reduce local government spending? after all if they have less trash to pick up and process, people could process their own rubbish with the some of the technology I have referenced. Which could be government subsidised in order to reduced the cost of buying the machines. No money to put petrol in your car? why not make your own petrol instead? I was talking to someone about this awhile ago and I was told about something interesting, apparently it is classed as tax evasion to make your own petrol, is that true? if it is then it's pretty stupid. I don't see why a car owner would be required to buy fuel? It's their car and they shouldn't be forced to fill it up are the petrol station. Also wouldn't materials that are only manufactured once increase costs? It's kind of like rust proof cars that last forever, there is no need to ever buy a new car to replace the old one. That is of course excluding reasons like the car was in a crash etc.
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Post by Iain Dooley on Jul 26, 2016 23:21:57 GMT
Edwin I think the problem with the vending machine idea is that it would be difficult to classify something as rubbish automatically. The guys at the cafe can police it at small scales themselves but for example if you had generic garbage cash vending machines it would be a big R&D effort to try and identify garbage reliably. What you might find if you price the garbage such that it is worth an adult collecting it, then the price of the garbage would exceed the cost of certain raw materials so you could end up with stuff that wasn't actually garbage being produced and fed into the machines. Scrap metal doesn't have this problem for obvious reasons. Having a more closely controlled schools programme as well as reducing waste overall by having reusable containers/packaging with return deposits makes more sense to me. I've never heard anything about recycling being superior to reuse, I've always heard the opposite. I do know that we could extract enough plastic from the ocean to last is a couple of hundred years and prelude the need to produce new plastic at all by reducing plastics use in containers and packaging. Not something I've particularly researched though. I'd be interested to see some academic proposals that we could adopt as policy.
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Post by andymyers on Jul 27, 2016 8:24:32 GMT
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Post by Iain Dooley on Jul 27, 2016 9:17:19 GMT
Note to self: make garbage deposit scheme national
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Edwin
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by Edwin on Aug 17, 2016 11:40:38 GMT
Western Australia will be introducing a container deposit scheme in 2018. Here is the report on 9 News Perth: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bauaw9h2wdo and here is an article on the ABC's website: www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-17/10-cent-container-deposit-scheme-for-wa-recyclable-bottles-cans/7751328I am interested in finding out how much the recycled material is sold back to the private sector for? If industry reduces the need for raw materials then shouldn't that result in the cost of products being lower? I think there needs to be a second reverse vending machine for the plastic that won't be refunded e.g. milk containers, these plastic containers could be turned into 3d printer filament and should be refunded. Recycling plastic bags could be difficult to do via a reverse vending machine. I wonder if it would be possible for people to bundle them up and then put them in a box? You would buy a box that has a barcode on it (this barcode would have a weight limit) then put plastic bags in and then take it to a recycling centre, where it would be weighed. If the weight was the same as the box you put them in, you would then be refunded a certain amount. Maybe this could be done via a purpose built reverse vending machine I don't know. The problem with this approach is the machine can't inspect the box and would be able to tell if people put chocolate wrappers in the box or any other plastic items that weren't plastic bags in order to cheat the machine and increase the weight of the box. But my overall point from the start of this thread, was that the climate change alarmists can relax because we have the technology to protect the environment.
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Post by Iain Dooley on Aug 18, 2016 11:50:46 GMT
I think the biggest thing contributing to climate change is good production isn't it? Both from livestock and transportation. Interestingly if we ate more locally produced and less homogenous diets we would not only need less packaging but also be more healthy and produce less carbon What I would love to see is a big R&D investment in hyper local organic farming and food production
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Post by Iain Dooley on Aug 18, 2016 11:51:08 GMT
I've always been a fan of permaculture. Could be a great JG opportunity too
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Edwin
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by Edwin on Aug 18, 2016 13:37:12 GMT
I think the biggest thing contributing to climate change is good production isn't it? Both from livestock and transportation. Interestingly if we ate more locally produced and less homogenous diets we would not only need less packaging but also be more healthy and produce less carbon What I would love to see is a big R&D investment in hyper local organic farming and food production And that could be reduced with cleaner fuel and filters on exhaust pipes or algae based biofuel. As well as increased public transport infrastructure.
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Edwin
Junior Member
Posts: 54
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Post by Edwin on Aug 18, 2016 13:38:57 GMT
I've always been a fan of permaculture. Could be a great JG opportunity too I am more in favour of vertical farming.
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